EP. 34 How Nestle’s Cloud Team Manages Multicloud & Security with Diego Costa

00:01 - Introduction & Career Journey

Matt Pacheco
And welcome to the Cloud Currents podcast where we navigate the ever-evolving landscape of cloud computing and its impact on modern business. I'm your host Matt Pacheco and I'm the head of Content marketing at TierPoint. And today we're joined by Diego Costa, a cloud and senior platform manager at Nestle. Diego brings over 25 years of experience in tech from his early days as a system engineer in Argentina to now leading one of the largest and most complex cloud environments at Nestle. He manages a global team of nearly a hundred team members orchestrating multi cloud operations across multiple cloud environments while handling critical security challenges for one of the world's largest food and beverage companies.

Matt Pacheco
In today's episode, we'll explore the unique challenges of cloud management and global food company, discuss the journey from technical expert to leadership and dive into how Nestle handles security and compliance across different regions across the world. So thank you for joining us today.

Diego Martin Costa
Thank you for having me, Matt. It's a pleasure. And thank you for the spectacular introduction.

Matt Pacheco
Awesome. So let's jump right into it. Let's talk about your journey and in your career. Can you walk us through where you started and where you're at?

Diego Martin Costa
For sure, for sure. So I am from Argentina. So in 1998 I started running fiber cables while I was in school. But my career started assistant engineering as part of Hewlett Packard that they have a deal with that is electronic Data System. It's a company that was acquired later by. By HEW Packard. So I started there and it was impressed of all the things that I was not aware that exist. In time I evolved right on the infrastructure side learning servers, learning about Blade and I became a champion of the Blade servers. That took me a long time right. To understand. I bounced between EDS and Hewlett Packard and in that time also comeback. I don't, I don't know if you recall that, but also was acquired by the company.

I learned about the acquisitions and many of these things because while were part of eds were acquired and it was a big deal. Later on I become a engineer of North America working for big companies in the U.S. Most of the companies regarding. So we have Johnson and Johnson or Visa consumer companies and I learned a lot there. And finally I became the chief OMG engineer. I was able to manage my first team which is the first time in Management in 2008. That was a disaster. I make all the mistakes. All what you learn in books, sometimes it's not in practice. And I remember I It was an experience that it was a very learning experience in deep because I, when you made mistakes, you learn it's different reading or just someone else teaching you Right. So I evolved in the space of virtualization.

I have customers in my local environment in Argentina working also for some customers in the us. Later on I decided to move away from that and I have an opportunity on Earth and young that more consultative they were building some data centers. I have experience, I became a chief architect there and it was a very good cool experience. Through that I decided to move to Europe. Now I am in Barcelona and working in Nestle. So I have the first year in a bank, in a local bank. I learned a lot about the local culture. People believe that Spain and Argentina have a similar culture but it's totally different. I love Spain. I, I, I enjoy a lot. We have many things in common but we speak differently, even the language is different.

Later on I have this experience of being a manager starting in Nestle, working with the hybrid cloud overall and building a team of seven. Now we are 98 as you know and we jump into the public cloud. So this is a massive environment. So this company have the biggest SAP in the world. We used to have the biggest active directory in the world and now we are considered in the top 10 tiers overall on Microsoft technology. So we have a multi cloud strategy. My team is driving that. I have the opportunity also to build a cloud center of excellence cloud option team and also the team that is managing the products we call it, we have a product based organization. So I have like a product owner of Azure, product owner of aws, product owner of gcp.

And the strategy of the company is manage the platform as a product. So it's something that also I have Scrum masters and we use this agile methodology. So in this journey I have to learn a lot. I consider myself very introvert, very techy and I have to learn a lot about communication management. And one of the thing is I love my team and it's good and bad sometimes because it's not your company. So sometimes when you need to give bad news that you feel it in the heart. But it's something that I am learning also to continue doing.

 

05:36 - Building a Global Team & Embracing Culture

Matt Pacheco
That's excellent. Yeah. And it sounds like you really care about your team and you really enjoy the leadership aspect. I have a few questions about that if you don't mind because I know how big Nestle is. You're a global company, you have a team that's probably not all in Spain with You how do you build and maintain a team culture across different countries, different time zones, different regions?

Diego Martin Costa
That is a struggle. So Internally we have 23 people and externally we have more than 70. So Nestle has a strategy, of course, the old strategy of outsourcing, but it's not the outsourcing that we don't know who they are. We manage the team together. So they have names and so we have different cultures, right? We have the culture of the company and of the partners, Accenture, Wipro, these kind of partners. At the same time, my team is located in different zones. So we have Asia, North America, Latin America, we have Europe, right, And India. So it's a struggle. What we do is of course you cannot be everywhere. And I always call the three pillars, which is process, people and tools. And in this case we try to every week to sync up. One of the struggles we have is that internally we serve.

So Nestle has more than 2,000 brands. So we serve to these brands. And 2,000 brands is not 2,000 people, is these are companies, right? So these are companies like Nespresso, Dolce, Gusto, kitkat, Purina. So these kind of companies have different strategies. In order to fulfill that, my team needs to be really in sync and we have a process internally that we follow. We try to connect in different events, calls and it's a struggle. I cannot say that we have it solved. We suffer for miscommunication or misalignments, et cetera. But we try to manage as much as possible our calendar. Today we are implementing AI and we are one of the first early adopter of Copilot that we have a big deal with Microsoft and that is helping us a lot. I can tell we are saving time there.

Not only on the tooling itself, but also different when we have the teams events or calls or meetings, we are able to have, you know, the meeting note directed to the people who are not connected because they are sleeping. And, and so we, we try to keep everybody in sync. And this is also about the culture. Everybody knows that his job is to have the mates on the same page, right? So that is something that we want to achieve.

09:34 - Talent Development & Addressing Skills Gaps

 

Matt Pacheco
Very interesting. And part of that one is engagement, but the other part is how do you help your team grow? So we're in a ever changing environment. You said it yourself, you're trying to adopt AI into your workflow and all this new technology from a cloud and then also security standpoint, how do you keep your team on top of those things and helping them grow to learn some of those skills. Because we've also heard for many companies there's sometimes a shortage in getting the right skill set, hiring new people who have the skills that you need. Maybe it's a two prong question. One is how do you grow your talent? And two is what are the ways you get over the skills gap that a lot of companies are facing?

Diego Martin Costa
Yeah, great question. And I can tell I only can have my personal, you know what I am doing, my experience because this is something that everybody struggle when I am in some congress. That question came always about the skills, about development and in this complexity that we have, right. In my case, we have three clouds, we have several markets and we always lack skill.

Because we cannot know everything. And we don't know which market is going to select some service block in the cloud that we never deployed before. So it's a challenge. I cannot say it's not. This is why also we have the Hyperscaler, we have Accenture that is an extension of my team. We are able to bring someone really fast. Is that we need to achieve right at the same time the grow mindset that is key. And I learned this a time ago. I. There is, there is a book about the. The is Carl Carol Dweck about how you develop this growth mindset that is not about that. You know already everything. It's about the learning experience that you will have every day. And it's okay to say look, I don't know, I need to have some look some read and I will come back, right?

So the growth mindset allow you to fail. And this is something that I would like to enforce, right? Every time we have a new process, a new project or something that we never done before, we're able to fail when it comes to not knowing or sometimes things that are were not able to achieve. Like for instance, you have a pipeline, right? You developed that pipeline like six months ago in this company that is very old. And to keep everything that you build updated also is a challenge, right? Again, this is why we have the hyperscalers helping us. So we have different tools. We have the web based training as everybody has. And as part of our contract with Hyperscaler also we manage to have different type of training.

Sometimes the guys from AWS came here and give us two days and we do all these kind of hackathons and we try to learn by. By doing. Other times the guys and I, I am Very happy that we have certifications, exams and we are always challenging and put it in place as part of the goal of the people to develop themselves. Because one of the things that I always struggle in my career is when the business is first and you never have time to, you know, sit down, read, complete the trainings because that is something extra that the company is not but when you are going to train.

So it's very important also that the managers I have in the, in the performance goals, it's very important to have written, hey, you need to spend this amount of time doing the training and you don't do that, nobody will do it because for them is okay. This is outside of my business. Right on the business hours.

 

13:29 - Multi-Cloud Strategy & Global Operations

Matt Pacheco
Yeah. And I'm sure that culture you've crafted is appreciated by your large team across those regions. So jumping into the technology side, you had mentioned you work in multiple clouds. Can you tell us a little bit about Nestle's approach to a multi cloud strategy across various regions? I know that's an extra complexity we'd love to learn a little bit more about.

Diego Martin Costa
Yeah, for sure. So why we have multiple clouds? I know we have one and it's going to be easier. In our case it's not because availability and it's not because scale in our case is because we have a shop where we offer services to multiple countries, multiple business. And we need to have the chance to have all the service block that we offer available. Because we don't know is tomorrow Purina or Nespresso or any of the companies or even any of the countries will require something that we don't have. So this is one. And I always say it's like you have a shop, a restaurant and you offer different flavors, right? You can offer pizza, you can offer burgers, right. But you need to make sure that when the clients come, these are available. When I say available, it means secure by design.

They are able to deploy, right. And they don't need to create this by scratch. So there are a guardrails in place and once everything goes to production also the MSP is ready to take it.

And we are ready with the KPIs contracts in place. So this is the landing zone that we call in the deep learn cloud. So one of the main things of this cloud, multi cloud strategy is to give the chance to the different internal customers, we call it receivers that they are able to consume and not worry about. Oh, is this compliance? Is this secure? Is it contract ready? No, we do that for you. Even though today we are doing terraform infrastructure as a code so we can do that and they don't need to be worried about pipelines and where we should put this.

Infrastructure. What, what is the landing zone, what is the security measure? We do it for them. They are just. Just tell us what is your application, what type of database you need.

And we deploy it for you. And end to end, this is one of the challenge because of course it's not easy to do it in three clouds. It's not easy to do it in an environment that we don't know the application that is going to come tomorrow.

So that is our goal is to have this readiness, including environments very complex like China. In China the environment is totally different. So the idea is to have a common goal, common strategy, global. And then in the region I have people that they know the internal customers, they know their receivers.

 

16:21 - Security, Compliance, & Risk Management

Matt Pacheco
Does security and compliance add even more complexity there? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Diego Martin Costa
Yeah. So we have a enormous team of security. We have very solid compliance team. So this is a full company. So regulations and also the reputation of the company is always in place. It's very important for us to have the level of security and the level of compliance before the first deployment. It's not something that we are going to see later. We cannot have technical debt on that side. So secure by design is something that we do. We have, for instance, we have a very interesting tool called Prisma Cloud that is connecting is a tool from Palo Alto is connecting in all the cloud and they give us a rating based on different parameters to see how we are doing in the security area. And we have a team in Accenture that is remediating every single parameter to go to the score app.

That score is also part of our personal goals. We need to score more than 95% and we avoid this in this way we avoid single debt. It's not the case that you say, oh, security for later. It's not the case in this case. We do it before the deployment, before we are planning.

Is this secure? Is this approved? And it's not only that, it's also in the contract side. When I say the contract is something I have to learn a lot. So my time I spend on security and compliance and also on the contract and financial. On the contract side, it's very interesting the terms and conditions that you need to have in place. Let's say that in Azure you want to use the marketplace. You need to be very careful because some companies are deploying through the marketplace. And the terms and conditions are not the same as the different component that Microsoft offer. You need to be careful. Like there are many.

Like computer storage, et cetera. So in that case it's better than you check. Because in my case I am offering to my customers if something goes wrong, the terms and condition needs to be clear who is going to support what level of abstractions. Are they taking care or we need to take care. And that is also part of the security. Because if you have a gray area that nobody's taking care, you can have a, a very big problem. If nobody is looking on into that.

And you don't know what hackers can exploit you never know. But it's better to have different layers. And also on that side, when you have this level of complexity with people, you cannot, you don't want to have gray areas. Yeah.

Matt Pacheco
And I can imagine being such a large company of consumer goods and then also specifically food. I guess that can make you a big target, right?

Diego Martin Costa
Yes.

Matt Pacheco
So how do you approach kind of your risk management as well, in addition to what you just talked about?

Diego Martin Costa
I always say we spend like 60 times more time in security compliance working with security. Now I have security people in my team and it's cool, it's good. We need to do it. This, this time that we are living security is becoming even the most important things I, I mentioned before is the reputation of the company. And here we are managing personal data and in Europe we have very strict regulation on that. Also we have audit and we have internal audit. So we need to be with all the different controls in place. This is very important. How we tackle this is you cannot have a very secure team. If you have flags in your deployments, you don't know exactly what you are doing on the application side. So security needs to oversee everything.

The full stack is not only infrastructure, it's also the application side. So we do that. What my team is doing in this side, on the application side, when it comes to marketing, sales or E Business or the innovation group, everybody is having the same responsibility with security. So there are securities ambassadors in each of these groups that also are aligned to make sure that everything is in place. And also we have guardrite, these different policies in the different clouds that you cannot avoid. So that is also for some people, when we started long time ago with the public cloud, some people have the mind that is the cloud. So I can deploy whatever I like and I connect this API to. This is not the case. We have a Lot of policies.

So sometimes we hire people coming from small companies or startups and they are like, I see the faces like I cannot do this. Why, why is not working or why I cannot have the freedom, right? And you are policing us. And I say no, look, welcome to the corporate side. You know, there is a way of working and there are reasons because it's a. We need to protect the company. You need to protect you. You cannot deploy whatever you like, right? We have a famous case when Nestle has a big deal with Starbucks. So there is a joint venture with them. And in that case, I remember our hit of attacks was incremental when we have that deal in my team and in the security. So we have to. Because of course Starbucks is very well known, right? So we both start working together.

I see the problem, I see, okay, we need to do something here. We need to be very careful. And I remember at that moment there was a famous case. Long time ago, you Google it, Anonymous proclaimed that they hacked us and it was not true. They just have a non probe small file and they put it in Twitter.

Our CIO at the moment has to say in a public speaking that it was. Everything was remediated and we are in a secure environment. But yeah, we are target of big, this big fish, right. And we need to be very careful. So all the controls that we have and we have this strategy of different layers, right? There are multiple type of layers with security with my group and other groups that are external groups.

We work a lot with the companies that are very good doing audits and they audit us all the time. So we have at this moment there is an audit running, right. So the strategy is to orchestrate all these elements which are people, tools and processes.

 

23:42 - Vendor Partnerships & Managing Complexity

Matt Pacheco
Yeah, that's really interesting. And I guess my follow up question and you sort of started getting into it. I can imagine you have a lot of vendor partnerships. One is with the major public cloud providers, but two is probably all the places your products are placed that could potentially create more attack service for you guys. So how do you approach all of that and managing those relationships and making sure that they're protecting you as well?

Diego Martin Costa
That is a good question mark. So yeah, we have in place a very solid governance and I remember coming from a very tech mentality working in my previous company. More on the tech side, I never took place of what is being on the other side, right. On the, on the customer side, in this side it's very important to have a governance and I didn't Know exactly what does it mean until I sit down here and we have this vendor management office. So the government that they, they have in Place has KPAs SLAs, of course, the one that is in the contract, right? You have legal terms and conditions that needs to be, that is like the basic, let's start from that. The basement is coming from the bottom to the top. And in the top what is the most important thing is the relationship.

So it's not only what is written on the top of that is your relationship with the account executive. And at least I can say myself because I am a person. Come on. I am Argentinian. I am a person of relationship.

We are very well famous on that. And I appreciate the different managers that we have. I want to know more about them. I always invite them, of course, they love to come to Barcelona. And it's all about relationship because you just are strict in the contract, all right? They will give you exactly what is there. That's it. But you care about your vendors and they start caring about you. Because it's not about Nestle, it's about Diego. It's about the team, right? My, my different architects working. So I tend to go really deeper into that. And when I see a person that wants the win in this area, I, I invest more, I, I, I, I want to go more. Because not all the vendors are and it's very personal, right?

But to have a solid relationship with them, looking for, not only for them to sell you more and you just, okay, let me check the budget. No, it's not about that. It's like, okay, we have an agreement. Good. How we can enjoy this agreement, do more and see over end result. And that I can tell you that is a lot of benefit. And on the other side, unfortunately, there are people that has personal goals and at least in my area, I have the chance to kick them out from the company.

Because the vendor was not behaving as we expected. The person was not behaving as expected. And unfortunately that also happened. So you need to be very solid on the rental management. You need to have in place the controls, the KPIs to look exactly. And to understand what they are offering.

And something is missing. There is a gap. It's very important that you sit down with them and negotiate the terms again. You have a relationship. It's going to be easier.

Matt Pacheco
Exactly. And I'm sure this applies to the major cloud providers as well, because you're working with quite a few of them. So when it comes to those major cloud partnerships and vendor management with the cloud, how do you ensure you're getting the best value from those cloud partnerships?

Diego Martin Costa
Okay, yeah, that is a really nice challenge. How we get the best. Something I learned. When you are in a big, a major company, you have some power to sit down with these major companies and have, you know, the same side of the negotiation. You are not a small company, right. That they don't care. So it's very important that you have exactly in written what you need. If not, the vendor is going to tell you what they need.

In my case, we have a very solid procurement team working with us.

And we have top management that they care a lot about the contracts.

So this is very solid. How we negotiate with them is all strategy, it's all back and forth.

One of the major contracts that we signed last year, it was again Microsoft and they came with an army of people. What I noticed is that in the first call they didn't say anything. They just waiting for us to say what we need. And I like it a lot. And they do it very well. It was hard. It's a negotiation from both sides. But I see them that they know what they are doing. So it's very important that you know what you are doing, what you need because if not, they will dictate it to you.

Also you need to have like external company and we do this a lot to give you advice. Companies, there are some like arbitrage, right. There are some companies that they will tell you, okay, what based on the experience, what you can achieve, what is possible.

Garnet is an advisor for us and they can tell you this is possible, I see this in other companies. So we don't have unrealistic expectations. And also it's very important that at the point of the signature that also you express what is your strategy with them. And in our case, because we have multiple clouds, we are showing them, hey, look, if the deal is not going to happen here, we have other companies, right. That they want to have deal with you. So that is also a bit of the game.

And everybody's playing the game, so it's better that you know the rules. Yeah.

Matt Pacheco
And I can imagine it being also very complex when you're doing multiple relationships at the same time, right?

Diego Martin Costa
Yes.

Matt Pacheco
So earlier you had mentioned you're one of the biggest SAP implementations out there, if not the biggest. Can you discuss a little bit about how you manage the complexity of having one of the Biggest, the world's largest implementation.

Diego Martin Costa
First, let me clarify. There is a manager managing all this IP because in Nestle we have a separation of duties because the complexity, it's not that one person can manage everything right. But it's in my organization, in the platform organization and together with this person. Yeah, it's really hard. One of the things I was impressed with this IP is that many features that some companies are using were created for Nestle first and then they implemented to the customers. It's so big and the relationship and it's a European company, so there are very tight, you know, to them and they are very proud of the negotiations and different contracts that we have.

One of the things that, how we handle it, how we manage the complexity with this IP is again is a team, an entire group that I say team, but it's an enormous team that they are separated in different models that SIP have.

And the complexity that Nestle have. Nestle is a company of factories everywhere in the world. And this is for SAP is of course is a dream because they can understand what to add to the service, what is not working right based on that and different models that they need to adapt. So I think the partnership that we done, we have with them is fantastic.

 

32:01 - The Future: AI, Leadership, and Key Advice

Matt Pacheco
It's really cool to hear. So I'm going to ask you some questions about the future. I love this part of the podcast because we get to look forward and hear some of the things that you're excited about over the next five, ten years. First I have to ask, because it's one of the hottest topics out right now, everyone's talking about it. Artificial intelligence. How do you see AI and machine learning impacting cloud operations soon or within the next few years?

Diego Martin Costa
Yeah, this is going to be one of the big impacts. Of course I cannot tell all the guests that you have. Everybody is very excited. They have different point of view. So last year I was in this garment congress and I asked the same questions because I had my view. Everybody has different view. So what I understand is first nobody caps it through. Nobody really can tell you. Matt, in five years this will be. I. You will see 10 different. You have 10 people, 10 different answers.

My view is the follow. There are two that we are focusing at least in the short term. The first one is all right, productivity. The first one is regarding that AI is mainly on productivity. And when I say productivity is we need to be careful. It's not that we need to use AI to do more is hey, how we can Use AI to deliver the same and the people has a little more balance with the personal life. Because sometimes we spend so much time with that in mind. How the mind works. When you have some more time, you are able to see. To see things that or solutions to problem that you never thought before. So based on that we can create the opportunity for new projects, new ideas, right?

So mainly for us in the short term, we are using a lot of copilot. We are using ChatGPT, we call it Nest GPT because Nestle, right? We have a private implementation with all the very important information in the company is very cool because of course with such a complexity to find some documents sometimes is really hard. Now with this tool you save a lot of your time. So here you have a lot of productivity. This is now and I am very happy. What I am envisioning in the future, of course is that, okay, what are the tools that are using AI that will give us the reduction of incidents and how we can tackle that to understand any type of. We have very severe KPIs, right? The P1, P2, we need to reduce it severely.

Okay, how we can implement AI in that case and how we can also have in advance the different probabilities for that to happen.

So this is something that of course we are investing some money sometimes to go there other things that we have in place. My team in cloud adoption that we. We help the markets different market, different countries to adopt the cloud. We are developing an internal chatbot. This is not new, but that will help us a lot, right? Because the cloud strategy is changing all the time. It's evolving. So yeah, the market in Thailand will ask hey man, I never received the update. So now we are trying to develop a single place where we can have all the information and we reduce the number of calls that these guys have calls with repetitive questions, right? So that is something else. And additionally we have. I have my.

My peer which we have phenops in place and in phenops we are implementing apptio and we are testing many other tools that have AI capabilities to reduce the. The. The time that we spend doing. Because imagine this, we have all the spend in the cloud and then we need to do internal charge to all the countries and to all the market. You can imagine it's a lot of work. So some tools can ease this a lot. And of course with AI that will help. In addition, how we can automate and integrate this through our tools, which is ServiceNow, right?

Matt Pacheco
On the flip side of the optimistic side of AI Are there any concerns with feeding data into it or leveraging the tools in operations? Do you have any concerns?

Diego Martin Costa
Yeah, of course we got, we have concerns. I don't believe we shall we are taking for granted that some security concerns could happen. We are very aware but we have a lot of security controls and by the way the first audit we implement Nest GPT and the next month we have an audit surprise. This we have an the Nestle internal audit.

And a lot of new controls show up.

That were not aware. We need to learn. This is why to have an audit is not something bad, it's something good. If you have the right mindset and in the culture of the company you accept that you have some findings which are critical and you need to have that in place then the behavior of AI is really hard. Hard to tell. Even for my personal activities I have, I, I tried to use sometimes Perplexity or the other tool. Of course chatgpt. I, I, I was trying Deep seq. It's hard to tell. Okay. Yes. Where my information is going.

In our case what we did is we have a private implementation.

All the information is keep internally until and this security by design mentality.

So we are safe on that area. What is the, the other side of this is of course we don't get the update when someone in OpenAI say okay this is ready. No, we don't get it. We have a lot of controls to understand what does it mean this versioning. And the same happened with copilot. Copilot now is integrated fully in Microsoft.

In the, all the office 365 again we are doing a lot of controls, internal implementation and even went very early in the adoption of copilot. All the new features that Microsoft is just shooting, we don't have it because there are a lot of control. We are slow in that once everything is ready, you evaluate it, you go, you have that in place at least you have some level of compliance, some level of security. I cannot tell what is going to happen with when we have, you know, agents working by themselves, that is something else.

But today with this level of gen AI we can accomplish this, these goals.

Matt Pacheco
Very cool. So with this new technology and all these changes in the industry, the cloud industry, how do you see the role of leadership changing or evolving over the next few years?

Diego Martin Costa
Very good. Yeah. This is a question I like. So leadership is a skill that you are always developing and the moment that you believe that you Are ready, you are done. And why? Because it's not that we never face the situations before. You can. You can read all books and you will see, you know, Drucker or. Or you go to historic and you will see a lot of things that situations that are similar.

But now what we have is the. For instance, a virtual environment. How you behave being a manager when you cannot be present. And that is totally a challenge.

So it's very important that you take care of something that is called your shadow. What is that your team is perceiving of you.

And you need to create enough trust in the virtual environment to ask and the people will tell you. Exactly. Because it's not the same for me. When I connect with my guys in Australia at the morning at 5, 6am that the guys in the. In the afternoon, I have different energy, of course. But also it's very important that the emotional intelligence is in place. And it's important to just to. To say exactly how you feel. Hey guys, Today I have 10 calls. I feel a bit low of energy. And when you just tag your feelings, the other side will say okay, yes, I feel a bit like that. Other side is very important for the managers to understand how the team is feeling.

And this is not about feelings, it's about motivation. It's about what. What you can ask what they can do.

And when they see you, that you open, they open.

It's totally important. So looking forward into the future is in a platform team like this, at least this is my experience is that it's really hard to manage all the changes all the time for them. You need to tell, hey guys, I know that this new service block, I don't know, Postgres, DBs in GCP, in Google Cloud. We don't have it today. And now we have a request. Take it easy. Let me speak with the manager of this internal customer. And we are going to enable. You need to take care of these things, right? In the virtual environment it's even worse. You cannot have everybody in our room. We negotiate, we work together, we go for a coffee together. It's not so that human interaction is broken. You need to do it, you need to make it happen.

It's not just because you are in the cold, right. It's totally different. It's more imperative. You need to make it happen.

Matt Pacheco
I like that. It's really cool. The transparency piece you mentioned and then putting in the effort to engage your team, it's big. The remote thing is a huge change in the Industry. So I appreciate your thoughts on that. One final question. We're getting to our final question. My favorite question of all the things we talked about today, what is one piece of advice you would give to our listeners who are thinking of whether it's adopting multi cloud, whether it's moving into a cloud leadership position or thinking about security? What, what is one piece of advice you would give to our listeners?

Diego Martin Costa
I would love to give one advice that I, when I am doing some public speaking, I have the same question is how I become a manager, how I become a leader. And let me give you just my.

Because it's just my experience. For me, being a, a person coming from Argentina, struggling with a lot of things in my personal life, being introvert and more, always on the tech side, right? And I'm becoming a manager facing all the things. There is one things that. There is one thing that I wish someone told me is a follow. If you want to become a manager, start leading where you are and yeah, okay, I take it. No, no. Real thing is that to be a manager implies you are always learning, you are doing the hard things first. You are there for your team. The energy is important for the team because you have good energy. Even when the team is unmotivated or something bad happen. You need to be very secure of yourself.

You, you need to start doing this in the moment where you are today and you need to make a decision that this need to happen. How you do that, you need to change what you're doing in your habits, in your direction, right in the way you speak, in the way you are today. You are an engineer, you are an architect, or you are just customer service in some of the companies. I did that by the way, in Hewlett Packard. You need to start leading at that moment. It's very important that you surrender yourself with content. Regarding leadership, I love Maxwell. I love a lot of good books that help me to develop the mindset of a leader. And then you need to look for, okay, who is some role model that I can copy. Who, who is the one you like, right?

And continue doing that every single day. Because you, once you are a manager, it's too late. Once the opportunity came, it's too late. And by the way, once the opportunity came and you are accepted, you need to continue doing that, right? Every day you need to have some new book, some new read because the situation that you are going to face is new. All the situations are new. And it's very important that you demonstrate in front of your different direct reports that you are the one there to serve the team to success. So that is the most important thing.

Matt Pacheco
Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for being on the podcast and sharing your advice and your experiences and a little bit about Nestle's cloud and security approach. We'd loved having you on today. We appreciate it.

Diego Martin Costa
Thank you. Matt, thank you for having me. I have a very good time and I hope we can repeat it when. When we can.

Matt Pacheco
Absolutely. And to our listeners, thank you for listening in or watching. Find this podcast anywhere you get your podcasts and stay tuned for more. But thank you and have a great day.